In fighting terrorism, not doing stupid things would help

Said Kouachi, right, and his brother Cherif are prime suspects in the killing of a dozen people at a Paris newspaper.

Cherif Kouachi, right, and his brother Said are prime suspects in the killing of a dozen people at a Paris newspaper.

As we learn more about Chérif Kouachi and other suspects in the Paris terrorist attack, we also learn more about the gift that keeps on giving:

“Chérif’s interest in radical Islam, it was said at the 2008 trial, was rooted in his fury over the United States’ invasion of Iraq in 2003, particularly the mistreatment of Muslims held at Abu Ghraib prison.”

That’s also how the French press at the time reported the case against Kouachi, who had been arrested and charged with attempting to travel to Iraq to fight against the American invasion. (He was sentenced to three years.) In 2005, his lawyer told the French daily Liberation that Kouachi had been “an occasional Muslim,” for example giving up drinking only during Ramadan, but had been radicalized “by the U.S. intervention in Iraq and the abuses at Abu Ghraib.”

Nobody is suggesting that Kouachi and his co-conspirators are somehow not fully responsible for their actions. That would be silly. But if we’re parceling out responsibility, we should be willing to take some of our own, if for no other reason than to prevent mistakes in the future. And if we invade and occupy the keystone state of the Arab world without provocation, and if we violate our own fundamental principles by deploying torture, the favorite tool of the most despised regimes in history, it would be equally silly not to expect that our actions would have consequences.

In fact, I can’t help but recall a memo written by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld back in October 2003, at a time in which it was slowly dawning on him just what we might have done with our invasion:

“Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing the global war on terror. Are we capturing, killing or deterring and dissuading more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics are recruiting, training and deploying against us?

Does the US need to fashion a broad, integrated plan to stop the next generation of terrorists? The US is putting relatively little effort into a long-range plan, but we are putting a great deal of effort into trying to stop terrorists. The cost-benefit ratio is against us! Our cost is billions against the terrorists’ costs of millions.”

You might think that given our experience in Iraq, we’ve now learned that lesson, but I’m not convinced. It is a lesson that appears destined to be learned and forgotten and learned and forgotten countless times. For example, consider a prescient memo written 20 years earlier, in 1983 during the early days of the Reagan administration.

The author, fresh from a tour of the region, suggests that we “ought to lighten our hand in the Middle East, very carefully so we don’t further upset things,” warning of  “the many opportunities to do harm to ourselves and others through error, inattention or miscalculation.”  “American goodwill, intuition and logic in an area that is non-intuitive and hardly logical in our context is a formula for trouble,” he predicts.

We need to “keep reminding ourselves that it is easier to get into something than it is to get out of it,” and that any talk of a “just and lasting peace” in the Middle East should be avoided. “There is little that is just, and the only things I’ve seen that are lasting are conflict, blackmail and killing – not peace.”

He goes on:

“A U.S. foreign policy must be rooted in the support of the people or it is not a policy, but merely a temporary aberration. The key is to provide maximum clarity as to what we are doing, why we are doing it, what the stakes are, and why what we are doing is worth the stakes and has reasonable prospects for success.”

If only Donald Rumsfeld had listened to that younger Donald Rumsfeld.

Reader Comments 0

1383 comments
lvg
lvg

According to Jay Saint Ronnie did the right thing by fleeing from the terrorists without any retaliation after they killed 247 US Marines who were not on a combat mission in Lebanon. Unlike the Black Communist from Kenya who goes blowing up terrorists and innocent bystanders all over the world.

AyeAyeSir
AyeAyeSir

Keep your head in the sand.  That's just what they want you to do.



Visual_Cortex
Visual_Cortex

And I will continue to call you out and humiliate you when you try to drag this nonsense into discussions in the future.

Visual_Cortex
Visual_Cortex

Your cites are a pile of editorialized bullspit, Scout, and you should be ashamed of believing this garbage.

AyeAyeSir
AyeAyeSir

"The 751 No-Go Zones of France"


"They go by the euphemistic term Zones Urbaines Sensibles, or Sensitive Urban Zones, with the even more antiseptic acronym ZUS, and there are 751 of them as of last count. They are convienently listed on one long webpage, complete with street demarcations and map delineations.

What are they? Those places in France that the French state does not control. They range from two zones in the medieval town of Carcassone to twelve in the heavily Muslim town of Marseilles, with hardly a town in France lacking in its ZUS."


http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2006/11/the-751-no-go-zones-of-france



List of 751 "no-go" zones:


http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/

Tuna Meowt
Tuna Meowt

@AyeAyeSir Just FYI, Pumpkin, Marseilles is a *rough* seaport town and has been so for generations -- long before muslims started moving in in any great numbers.


For an easy confirmation, just watch Gene Hackman in The French Connection, which was a dramatization of a real-life drug ring takedown.  And guess where the drugs were coming from, both in the film and in real life?


Marseilles.


AyeAyeSir
AyeAyeSir

"European 'No-Go' Zones for Non-Muslims Proliferating"


"Islamic extremists are stepping up the creation of "no-go" areas in European cities that are off-limits to non-Muslims.

Many of the "no-go" zones function as microstates governed by Islamic Sharia law. Host-country authorities effectively have lost control in these areas and in many instances are unable to provide even basic public aid such as police, fire fighting and ambulance services.

The "no-go" areas are the by-product of decades of multicultural policies that have encouraged Muslim immigrants to create parallel societies and remain segregated rather than become integrated into their European host nations."


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2367/european-muslim-no-go-zones



AyeAyeSir
AyeAyeSir

"The No-Go Zones of Europe"

"Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 ‘No-Go Zones’ By Muslim Criminal Gangs

Swedish police have ceded control over 55 “no-go zones” to predominately Muslim criminal gangs.

An extensive report mapping out 55 no-go zones was released Oct. 24, showing where law enforcement has all but handed control to criminal gangs.

Officers frequently face outright attacks when trying to enter the areas, which is a step up from the previous problem with attacks on mailmen, fire trucks, ambulances and similar services. Fire trucks and ambulances had to wait for police escort to enter the areas, but now the police themselves need protection.

The no-go areas heavily coincide with the map of the 186 “exclusion areas” aka. crowded, predominantly Muslim immigrant ghettos, where education is low, employment is lower and the only local business thriving is drug dealing."


http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/01/the-no-go-zones-of-europe/



fiftythreepercenter
fiftythreepercenter

Hey Bookman,  can you give us a list of what terms we're allowed to call people without them being deleted or getting chastised for them?  I fail to see the difference in calling somebody a "dumbass" and a "moron", but maybe you can explain that. 


Or is it selective based on being one of your pet posters?

barkingfrog
barkingfrog

@fiftythreepercenter Well I'll try. Moron is a medically definable term. Dumbass is not.


For example I could definitely call you a Moron with proper examination but

Dumbass would be opinion only.

fiftythreepercenter
fiftythreepercenter

"I screen incoming international travelers to seek out those who are coming here to cause trouble. "


Are you blogging on the taxpayers dime?

Visual_Cortex
Visual_Cortex

Before I leave, I really need to address this:

There are now hundreds of "No-Go" zones in France alone where police and even fireman are not allowed by "peaceful" Muslims to enter.

You guys really need to stop lying. 

TBS
TBS

sheetz

Visual_Cortex
Visual_Cortex

oh, hey, Scootter, about this from you:

That must be written in the Holy DNC Bible!  LOL

I was, actually, making a glancing reference to this fairly recent news item:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/us/its-official-mormon-founder-had-up-to-40-wives.html?_r=0

Mormon leaders have acknowledged for the first time that the church’s founder and prophet, Joseph Smith, portrayed in church materials as a loyal partner to his loving spouse Emma, took as many as 40 wives, some already married and one only 14 years old.

The church’s disclosures, in a series of essays online, are part of an effort to be transparent about its history at a time when church members are increasingly encountering disturbing claims about the faith on the Internet. Many Mormons, especially those with polygamous ancestors, say they were well aware that Smith’s successor, Brigham Young, practiced polygamy when he led the flock in Salt Lake City. But they did not know the full truth about Smith.


And yeah, t'was a bit of a cheap shot on my part, but it'd be kind of nice if the usual idiots could lay off their gratuitous use of the word "pedophile" whenever referring to Muhammed.

CardiganBoy
CardiganBoy

Dear stands...  sorry for the 'no response' below.  My wife kicked me off the blog.  


But yes.  I'm interpreting.

Paul42
Paul42

@CardiganBoy

Just another good reason why, when you go sofa shopping, lie down on it to see if it's comfortable to sleep on.

Tuna Meowt
Tuna Meowt

@CardiganBoy "My wife kicked me off the blog."


In my case, it's usually 'wife monopolizing the wireless connection with Youtube videos of knitting how-tos.'


But I feel your pain.


LeninTime
LeninTime

Well I'm not sure yet the exact ratio of right wing trash to reasonable here, but it's not looking good so chances not good for me hanging around here too long today. I don't want to end up smelling like trash on my Friday night.

barkingfrog
barkingfrog

@SFM_Scootter  If so, hope he didn't find out by taste...

Paul42
Paul42

In other good news, seems Speaker Boehner has kicked two Tea Party Republicans off the influential Rules Committee for their defiance.  I'd listened to talking heads (Cokie Roberts) a few days ago saying Boehner said he'd give them a pass, the vote was show to get it out of their system.  I guess the number who joined in was too much.  Good to see Boehner finally enforce discipline and taking action to tell TPers 'don't expect to take  action without consequences."  

We'll see if Majority Leader McConnell shows the same toughness.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/boehner-allies-out-for-revenge-114007.html

AyeAyeSir
AyeAyeSir


France and Europe in general are in deep, deep trouble with their influx of "peaceful" Islamic immigrants because with those immigrants come thousands of terrorists.  You CAN NOT separate the two.  There are now hundreds of "No-Go" zones in France alone where police and even fireman are not allowed by "peaceful" Muslims to enter.  These "peaceful" Muslims there have chosen to handle everything themselves including the institution of horrific Sharia Law and the French (and other European governments) have unbelievably acquiesced to those demands.  It is beginning here in the U.S. in the Detroit area among others.


The United States has a very limited time to attempt to keep this from gaining momentum here.  Do we have the moral and political will/courage to save this country for our grandchildren and great grandchildren? I seriously doubt it.

LeninTime
LeninTime

@AyeAyeSir

France and Europe in general are in deep, deep trouble with their influx of "peaceful" Islamic immigrants

***

While France and its western allies tramples through its countries, slaughtering innocent civilians with its drones. But certain racists think it's the Muslims who are not peaceful. 

Tuna Meowt
Tuna Meowt

@AyeAyeSir "The United States has a very limited time to attempt to keep this from gaining momentum here.  Do we have the moral and political will/courage to save this country for our grandchildren and great grandchildren? I seriously doubt it."


That's pretty much for constraining christian political activism, too.


After all, while all christian pro-lifers don't go around shooting abortions doctors, those individuals who *do*go around shooting abortion doctors *are* christian pro-lifers.


TBS
TBS

@AyeAyeSir


Tell us again about those no go zones.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

td1234
td1234

Bro,  You missed the whole point. Everything Bookman posted was incidents during a Republican administration but now it appears the actual terrorist are saying the attack was revenge for an incident during the Obama administration. 


My question is will Bookman now comeback in the name of being fair and balanced and update the article to include this new information. In other words will he keep the piece as a hack job or will he be fair? 


I know what my bet would be on. 

TBS
TBS

@td1234


Did you favorite brietbart retract its prayer rug story when it was found to be an Adidas jacket?

Did you call or email to complain that they blatantly did a hack job as you call it?


We both know that answer so no need to reply


Next


Brosephus
Brosephus

@td1234 

"Everything Bookman posted was incidents during a Republican administration but now it appears the actual terrorist are saying the attack was revenge for an incident during the Obama administration."

And yet, you said Bookman was trying to blame Bush and Abu Ghraib.  Nice try on trying to move your goalposts, but taking football goalposts and putting them on a baseball diamond makes them kinda stick out.


MiltonMan
MiltonMan

@td1234 


Asking Jay to be fair is akin to asking the GA libs to nominate someone to state office these days who is actually electable.

LeninTime
LeninTime

Ah the right wing trash mind.

EdUktr
EdUktr

The French apparently haven't considered the Obama solution to Islamic terrorism: simply labeling terrorist attacks "workplace violence" rather than terrorism.