It’s 150 years since Appomattox; the flag must come down

confederate-flag-AP-640x480-3According to South Carolina media outlets, Gov. Nikki Haley will call this afternoon for the long-overdue removal of the Confederate battle flag from the grounds of the state Capitol in Columbia.

Good. Pull the thing down.

UPDATE at 4:14 p.m: Haley announced this afternoon that the flag is a part of the state’s past, but not its future. If the state Legislature does not remove the flag from the Capitol grounds in its current session, she will call a special session to force the issue.

No, the flag’s removal will not end racism. It won’t bring back the nine people shot down during Bible study in their church last week. But that flag was put in its place of honor by an act of the state Legislature in 1962 to symbolize official support for racism and segregation, and it must be removed to dispel any doubt in any minds that such sentiments are still sanctioned or even remotely acceptable.

Pull it down. And leave the flagpole, with its lanyard empty and clanging against the pole in the breeze. Leave it as a rebuke, so that people can remember what used to be there, but is now gone.

Under South Carolina law, Haley can’t make the decision to remove the flag on her own. The flag can be lowered only by a vote of both the state House and Senate, and even then a simple majority will not be sufficient. The flag can be removed only with agreement of two-thirds of both the House and Senate, a fact that itself testifies to the emotions that the flag inspires. While such a legislative margin is likely in the wake of last week’s tragedy, it is not guaranteed, particularly if the decision can be delayed several months.

But the time has come. Argue all you want that the flag isn’t meant as a symbol of racism — no, actually, you can’t argue that. You just can’t.  It is and has always been meant as a symbol of racism.

It is a flag under which soldiers fought to keep black Americans enslaved as subhuman property. It is a flag that was elevated to new prominence a century after that war, this time to rally white Southerners to defend racial segregation. And more than 50 years after the civil rights movement allegedly transformed this country, that flag retains the ability to inspire and project hatred:

dylann-roof

Dylann_Roof_Confederate_flag-1

roof_flag_gun-800x430

Pull it down.

As we’ve all learned, Dylann Roof ‘s goal was to start a race war that pitted black American against white American.  The friends and relatives of his victims refused to reward his hatred with the hate that he sought to provoke, and by doing so they showed far more courage than he could ever possess. The next step is to snatch away the symbol that Roof embraced, and by stripping it from a place of honor strip it of any remaining legitimacy.

Pull it down, put it to rest and let’s move on.

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1405 comments
BuckeyeGa
BuckeyeGa

Sixteen hours after killing nine people inside a Charleston, South Carolina, church, 21-year-old Dylann Roof was treated to a free meal from Burger King by the Shelby, North Carolina, police officers who arrested him. This is according to Shelby Police Chief Jeff Ledford, who told the Charlotte Observer that Roof complained of hunger before officers bought him the burger.




OriginalProf
OriginalProf

For all white people who think that you can necessarily take at face-value the pleasant words and compliments spoken to you by black folks, here is Paul Dunbar's bitter poem. He lived 1872-1906. I don't think things have changed much...and I am a white person.

We Wear the Mask


We wear the mask that grins and lies, 

It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,— 

This debt we pay to human guile; 

With torn and bleeding hearts we smile, 

 And mouth with myriad subtleties.


Why should the world be over-wise, 

In counting all our tears and sighs? 

Nay, let them only see us, while      

We wear the mask.


We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries 

To thee from tortured souls arise. 

 We sing, but oh the clay is vile 

Beneath our feet, and long the mile; 

But let the world dream otherwise,        

We wear the mask!

straker
straker

Peaches - "few Georgians paid much attention to it"


Here's a tip.


Slavery, wife beating and lynching are NOT in the same category as some flag being displayed.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@straker 

But slavery, wife (and husband) beating, and lynching all took place under this flag flown proudly by the beaters and lynchers. Nowadays, the flag is a sort of short-hand for those activities, a reminder of them to observers.


I guess you're one of those who don't mind using the national Stars and Stripes as underwear?

Peachs
Peachs

I guess there are people who say that about slavery or wife beating, few Georgians paid much attention to it.  The blacks and females were hung or beaten for paying attention to it.  It amazes me how few "Christians" care about anything except themselves, let that lady lie there or that man hang in that tree I got to get to church.  But boy you bring up gay rights and you got a coffee high on steroids , or illegal immigration where they are complaining about people just not paying much attention. 


straker
straker

I remember when our Georgia flag had a Confederate look to it.


At the time, few Georgians, Black or White paid much attention.


In fact, I doubt than most Georgians, Black and White could have even given an accurate description of the flag.


Then, the civil rights leaders and politicians started to make it an issue.


Suddenly, many Whites were demanding their "heritage" be preserved and many Blacks were demanding this "racist flag be changed.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@straker 

How can you speak for Black Georgians unless you're one of them? How do you know that they didn't look at this flag with unspoken hatred and resentment?

I really do not believe that white people can ever know "what Black people think," for they have had centuries to learn how to hide their true feelings beneath a mask. See the Black poet Paul Dunbar: "We wear the mask......."

StraightNoChaser
StraightNoChaser

@straker I remember it too and as a new comer to GA I use to look at it and shake my head in disbelief.  So it was not just an issue with civil rights leaders it was an issue with people from around the country, myself included.  It was the most horrific thing I had ever seen and it was deplorable to look at out of my office window when I use to work at Sun Trust bank.  It's not the flag it's the people and the system that this flag represents, a system of exclusion not of inclusion.  Removing the flag is the first step removing the system is the next step.

straker
straker

Lenin - "to destroy the Bernie Sanders candidacy"


If his candidacy really starts to get traction, I imagine the establishment will paint him as the next Joseph Stalin.

honested
honested

@straker 

However, I do see an Electorate receptive to his message this cycle.

Peachs
Peachs

@straker  I dealt you would know Stalin if he bit you.  All these code words for liberal yet you have no clue what that flag means, you can't be that or maybe you can...

straker
straker

53% - "would be more useful than anything you've done so far"


I doubt you've done anything either.

LeninTime
LeninTime

@HeadleyLamar 

By the way, why was the US behind a movement in a foreign country - Ukraine - to topple a democratically elected government, an effort that was spearheaded by the same filthy right wing racist elements in that country that we're supposedly decrying here?
After the coup last year the Rebel flag was even spotting hanging in Kiev.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_38CaoUbE (see around 0:58)

fiftythreepercenter
fiftythreepercenter

"It is much more economically viable to hire the uneducated non skilled workers at minimum wage and then let them figure out how they house themselves, feed themselves and take care of their own healthcare. "


Hey Paul, why is it you've never started a company so you can put your "pay a living wage regardless of the skill required" philosophy to work where it really matters?  You know, Paul, actually put money in somebody's paycheck vs. flapping your gums endlessly.  Gum flapping and whining aren't doing anybody any good.  Heck, knitting a sweater for the poor would be more useful than anything you've done so far.  

barkingfrog
barkingfrog

How can black lives be endangered by allowing the rebel flag to fly in any state ?

The President should demand that it be removed for public safety. 

ElemennoP
ElemennoP

@barkingfrog 

Maybe he should write an executive order.  After all, he hasn't done that very much.........

LeninTime
LeninTime

@td1234 

So you called Media Matters both an arm of the Hillary Clinton campaign and a 'left wing' media organization. 

How can it both? After all Hillary Clinton is one of the more right wing candidates running.

HeadleyLamar
HeadleyLamar

@td1234 @LeninTime Just because she does not want collectives does not mean she is a conservatives.


O she a conservatives alright. Just look at Libya where the US alone overthrew popular President Muammar Gaddafi. 

td1234
td1234

@LeninTime Right. There are two different ways to measure progressive and conservative. One is fiscally and the other socially. 


Conservative: Hillary laundry list of more spending and higher taxes is not conservative. 


Socially: Gay marriage, abortion, welfare... None of these views are conservative. 


So how can you call Hillary a Conservative? 


Just because she does not want collectives does not mean she is a conservatives. 

LeninTime
LeninTime

@honested 

I'm sure there are enough members of the "sons of Traitors" who would vote yes on that idea.

***
Oh I see, so you enjoy taunting the rubes a little here at home, but when the subject turns to the Russians you'll fly your rube flag with pride. Got it.

honested
honested

@LeninTime @honested 

How does identifying barbarians for what they are (barbarians who have a whole group of trolls dedicated to protecting their 'honor' mind you) qualify one as a rube?

If the putionoids don't want to be identified as barbarians, they might want to stop behaving as such.

LeninTime
LeninTime

@honested 

If the putionoids don't want to be identified as barbarians, they might want to stop behaving as such.

**
Ah but all you have to do is substitute 'obama' for 'putin' and you have a question that many around the world outside the Washington media bubble view as the more legitimate point: 

If the obamaoids don't want to be identified as barbarians, they might want to stop behaving as such.

honested
honested

@LeninTime @honested 

Does the United States have troops openly battling for territory in Canada or Mexico while pretending they are 'glorious volunteers'?

I didn't think so.

LeninTime
LeninTime

@honested 

Does the United States have troops openly battling for territory in Canada or Mexico while pretending they are 'glorious volunteers'?

**
God you really are deluded aren't you? 

Which country has invaded, bombed, droned, and occupied and otherwise menaced at least a dozen countries over the past two decades and all in the name of 'freedom' and 'democracy'?

honested
honested

@LeninTime @honested 

While there is a misguided and vocal minority who supports those actions, the MAJORITY of Americans realize there is an error in international brutality.....

Howcum the putionoids think that everyone next to them should be willing to submit to brutality?

Philo_Farnsworth
Philo_Farnsworth

Wasn't the end of June the deadline to finalize the agreement with Iran allowing them to get nukes?

Haven't heard much about that lately.

Bulls_3y3
Bulls_3y3

@honested   excuse me but an, EPA study shows no damage to aquifers... Who told you that LIE???

Philo_Farnsworth
Philo_Farnsworth

And the Iranian nukes hit the U.S., we won't need no steenking oil anyway.

honested
honested

@Bulls_3y3 @honested 

As usual, you pick ONE study and hope it discredits the others.

Anyways, when the Iranian oil hits the market, the environmentally destructive local product will be too expensive.

honested
honested

@Philo_Farnsworth 

Just wait until Iranian oil hits the market and the aquifer destroying frackers start whining about their 'profits'.

Bulls_3y3
Bulls_3y3

@fedup52   a new Iranian long-range missile could extend Iran’s strike capability to a wide swath of Europe and potentially far beyond.

Unlike Obama, Iran is busy getting ready for war...

fedup52
fedup52

@Bulls_3y3 @fedup52 But you said US.


Iran is busy getting ready for war... 


Did a little birdie tell you that or just made it up.

td1234
td1234

I thought Media matters was a prime source of accurate information for the progressives on this blog? 


"Media Matters For America founder David Brock admitted Monday that his nonprofit, tax-exempt organization specifically defends Hillary Clinton, a political candidate for office, from Republican criticism.

What do you think?

Brock’s stunning admission calls into question the nonprofit status of his left-wing media monitoring organization.

What do you think?

Brock made the admission in an op-ed defending his group’s association with Sidney Blumenthal, Hillary Clinton’s political adviser and informal Libya consultant.

What do you think?

Blumenthal fed Clinton information from Media Matters while advising the former secretary of state in the aftermath of the Benghazi terrorist attack. Blumenthal was serving as a paid Media Matters consultant at the time



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/22/media-matters-founder-we-defend-hillary-clinton/#ixzz3dqiGOvAX

Paul42
Paul42

@td1234

You were surprised by that?

Really?

And.... it never, ever occurred to you 'defending from criticism' means exposing falsehoods said about someone?

C'mon, td, tell us how 501c3 organizations aren't supposed to engage in political activity.  Please please please, tell us that.

HeadleyLamar
HeadleyLamar

@Paul42 @td1234 And.... it never, ever occurred to you 'defending from criticism' means exposing falsehoods said about someone?


Of course logically it does.


Media Matters takes special delight in exposing the lies coming from Fox News.

honested
honested

@td1234 

Your initial statement suggests you thought wrong.

Paul42
Paul42

@HeadleyLamar

Why.... it's right there on their website!


td1234, did your source tell you this?

"Media Matters for Americais aWeb-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformationin the U.S. media."

LeninTime
LeninTime

@td1234 

Brock’s stunning admission calls into question the nonprofit status of his left-wing media monitoring organization.

***
"Left wing"? 

Front for the Hillary Clinton campaign? 

Left wing? 

How do you square that circle?

honested
honested

@LeninTime @honested @td1234 

Just pointing out the initial assertion (that all the Progressives here get their information from Media Matters) is wrong.

I do like David Brock but I seldom use MM as a source.

HeadleyLamar
HeadleyLamar

@td1234 @Paul42  Engage is what they are all about but to blatantly state they are all for one particular person,


That isn't what they said at all.

td1234
td1234

@Paul42 Engage is what they are all about but to blatantly state they are all for one particular person, basically working for the organization, and then tell us that they are a legitimate news source is total BS. 

td1234
td1234

@Paul42 So tell us why all you progressives keep claiming their "news releases" are legitimate stories and not left wing propaganda? 

HeadleyLamar
HeadleyLamar

@td1234 @Paul42 What they do is expose right wing propaganda. That IS legit.


We all realize you aren't going to be able to see the difference.